Match Day Thread Watford vs. Norwich City 26th Dec, KO 7.45pm

I think we missed stieps.

 

Watford were allowed to foul us the entire game and scored from their one shot on target
Weak refereeing and we didn't play well.

Never mind we're still top

 

Who's doing the next one?

 

This suggests we still haven't solved the problem of what to do against mid- to lower-Prem teams who are streetwise and focus on breaking up their opponents' game rather than trying to create much themselves, and who sit back and wait for an error. This is what Watford were until they had last year's poor season. Like probably all of us, I had dreams of 50 points at the halfway stage and our club sailing effortlessly towards promotion, but perhaps in the long run this loss may even benefit us.

Shame, though, because I think a victory would more or less have finished Watford off as automatic contenders.

 

Exactly right lisbon. Last night was disturbingly reminiscent of last season - even to the point of falling into the self same trap that undid us game after game in the EPL. Did anyone see anything in that performance to suggest that, if we are back up next season, we will do any better than last time?

 

Yes, VAR

 

"Overall you have to say a game with 65% possession as the away team, and 16 to 7 shots, it's not a game you should lose but we did and I think the reason was we lacked a bit of intensity and sharpness up front. If you're not sharp and intense enough in the offence you also lack a bit of awareness and sharpness in terms of defending." (DF post-match)

No, Daniel. When you insist on trying to impose your front-foot game on teams that are able to blunt your sharpness and thwart your intensity, you eventually over-commit and invite a sucker punch. What you sow, you reap. The story of last season -- and on this showing, next.

 

Except that doesn’t add up, does it. It’s quite clear that players like Buendia were lacking a bit of sharpness yesterday - I can think of at least three passes where Buendia shanked what he would have got right on another day, and three shots at goal which he misjudged entirely of his own accord. Farke’s bang on. The idea that Watford imposed a lack of sharpness or intensity upon us is laughable. All they did is block up is defend structurally behind the ball - the lack of incisive passing and enough movement to break that down was entirely due to us. Vrancic showed when he came on that it was perfectly possible to cut through the Watford team, but it needed an inch-perfect pass. Unfortunately, twice, the pass-receiver fumbled - lacking sharpness I suppose...

You’re also wrong on why we conceded. Yes, it was a Watford break, but they got very lucky with the deflection from the low cross which effectively took it away from McGovern, which otherwise would have been comfortable. I think Watford had three actual chances all game, including the goal. And both of the other two were due to some bizarre passing when the defenders were not really even under that much pressure. Fortunately Skipp and Zimmermann both managed to recover. That entirely matches up to Farke’s comments, not yours.

So essentially we ineffectually dominated a game, as we know can happen. This time we got very unlucky to concede when we were not truly ever threatened. It did not help that the referee let a lot of fouls go such that our players ended up diving more often (again, a lack of sharpness).

The trouble is you’re trying to fit square pegs into round holes. We’ve tried the structured defending type thing you advocate and we are much worse. I would rather we play nice football and accept defeat when a team successfully holds us out than try and force a team wholly unsuited to Allardyce-ball to do so.

You frequently cite Man City game as the archetype. The trouble with that is it assumes all other teams want to play like Man City against us. There are always teams that will allow you to have the ball, and frankly we are much better with the ball.

So let’s be totally honest here: Farke’s comments are spot on. We lacked sharpness and intensity.

The only things that his quote is missing is acknowledging that: (1) we still allow ourselves to get frustrated when the ref makes bad decisions. It comes with young players I think. And (2) without Placheta, Idah or Hernandez on the pitch, we do not have a forward with enough pace to offer something totally different and stretch the opponent.

I think the main problem is that you look at the last season in the Premier League as evidence of total failure which needs remedying. I completely disagree. I am confident we came much, much closer to success last season than you think we did, because this is a game of fine margins. And I suspect the club directors, Farke, the team and most fans agree with me, because I think we are seeing something you are missing.

 

Well said Rob. I must admit I started to think like Robbie last night but broke out of it by looking at what we've already achieved this season. You don't comfortably lead the league at Christmas by playing badly. Last night wasn't characteristic of our play this season. The passing wasn't as consistent as it has been and we truly lacked sharpness and quickness in our play.

One reason could be fatigue after all the injuries we've had for those playing through. For those coming back from injury it could be a lack of game time and fitness. I'm an admirer of Dowell's play, but he was poor last night and that was spotlighted by how well Vrančić did when he came on. Cantwell was also well below par. Gibson added sharpness at the back and going forward compared to the play of Zimbo earlier.

The change to 3 at the back also helped both in defence and attack, with the excellent Handley also getting forward to support the attack. He's our second highest rated player behind Buendia over the season on WhoScored and that was true last night as well in spite of Emi's miscues at times (7.9 & 7.7 respectively, both outscoring all of Watford's players). I hope Gibson starts on Tuesday, whether in a 3 at the back or not. I also hope Quintilla is back soon, because Sørensen was struggling against Sarr last night.

To lose at Watford by a single goal when some players were below par and the referee was poor is no cause for panic. We now have home games against QPR and Barnsley to get back on course before the halfway point. Keep the faith!

 

What we've achieved this season, we've achieved in the Championship -- like two seasons ago. We have now played both the other relegated teams, losing to both. They are as close as the Championship offers to EPL quality, and when we come up against even mid- to low-table EPL quality, we fall short. It's not my view which "doesn't add up"; it adds up only too well.

 

You can always rely on RobbieBB to post his unique brand of doom monging after a loss.
During the game and after a win he's nowhere to be seen as soon as we lose one it's " I told you we are **** perhaps now you will believe me ".
Still top of the league and not firing on all cylinders with players returning from injury.

Quintilla and Krul back next game hopefully .

 

We also lost to Luton, Are they an EPL quality team, No. The truth is the Championship is the toughest league in the world, and every team in this league would happily swap their position for ours.

We are not going to win every game, we will have days when we perform at less than our best and the stronger the opposition the more likely they are to be able to take advantage. We had a bad day yesterday, we often have a dip in form over the Christmas period. Watford did not blow us apart, we were just out of rhythm and plays that worked so well against Cardiff didn't come off yesterday. Just accept it for what it is, a bad day, we will have better days this season and worst one's.

The continually banging of the same drum and the constant attempts to make every negative fit a fixed narrative is slowly putting me off this forum. Lets have some original thoughts and look at our current position and forward rather then revisiting the past

 

Watford lost to Newport County Barnsley and Huddersfield this season they are clearly not Premier league standard

 

Your criteria changes to suit your purpose, Robbie. Earlier you said that we deserved better against Bournemouth because our xG stats were higher than theirs. It's likely that was the case again last night but you ignore that when it doesn' t suit your argument. You'd rather take two away losses to top teams to define our season than credit the 13 wins we've had. We're the only team to be averaging above 2 points a game and our quality is cited week after week by opposing managers but that doesn't count for you.

Are we PL quality now? Probably not, but neither are the teams below us. Is our squad better than last season? Yes, and if promoted we'll be able to add more quality players, which we couldn't do last season. The task now is to gain promotion and that's what we should focus on and the signs are good. That'll do for me!

 

Stat thread please

 

Nothing to do with "defining our season", Rick. My post was about next season -- with an implicit assumption we would be in the EPL. Your "confession" that you "started thinking like Robbie" tells me that you yourself recognised how little, in that respect, has actually changed.

 

No, it's an entirely pertinent response to Rick's post on this thread.

 

Revisiting the past? Last night was a case of the past reproducing itself in the present. And I posted precisely because I am looking forward, the trouble being that, what I currently see for next season is a likely re-run of last season.

 

Only in your world, no one else's. If you can't see that we moved on from last season, then you're deluding yourself.