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Weekend Debate

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by Doc, Jul 29, 2022.

  1. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    This weekends big questions are all about what to do with some players

    Cody Drameh is potentially a great player in the making. Can play anywhere in defence or as a winger. Will he be asked to stay

    Kiko we believe is in negotiations to terminate his contract and allow him to go back to Spain

    Costa has one of the best agents in football so he needs to work his magic and get him a move, maybe back to Portugal.

    Poveda has opportunities with 3 Championship clubs, Italian clubs, Spanish clubs and the MLS. Will we extend his contract or just sell him

    Summerville is in negotiations for a new contract, but is this so we can loan him out or is because we want him in the first team squad. Unplayable at academy level but still waiting to see that form transferred to prem football. Last year of his contract so something needs to happen

    Lewis Bate is one to watch as he needs football and that means Championship football. Pointless sending him down the divisions as it will probably end his aspirations. Too good for the U21s but not good enough yet for the first team.

    Klich is one we could see moving out, going home or taking a move to the Championship or even Holland or Germany.

    Rodrigo is a strange one but talk of offers from countless La Liga clubs back home in Spain and talk of offers from Turkish clubs

    Forshaw, Cooper, Ayling and Dallas - just how much game time will they get this season. Cooper is getting a lot of injuries, Forshaw is like a biscuit missing the last few weeks of last season on top of his earlier injuries and now out for the start of the season. Ayling could be best placed to make it back fully but we may never see Dallas again as he has a very serious break and they cannot be assessed until the player makes it onto the pitch again. He may lose speed and pwer but I really hope he beats the odds and comes back fully. However we have 4 fragile players over 30yo and yes each if them could be excellent on the bench especially after last season, but is the time ripe for easing some out?

    I'm gambling that a new striker and new LB get done within days
     
    #1
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  2. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member
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    Who commits the most fouls in the Premier League? Separating the clumsy from the clever
    Mark Carey


    What typically comes to your mind when a player commits a foul? Probably that it was reckless, perhaps overeager, but usually, it is an unintentional action that inadvertently stemmed the flow of the game — but not all fouls are committed equally.

    How often are they committed as a cunning, intentional tactic from a player to break up the play and allow their team to regroup? The dark arts are usually reserved for the most streetwise teams, and the most streetwise teams are often the ones who find a way to win, no matter the situation.

    Let’s see if we can tease out the clumsy from the clever…

    Simply looking at who made the most fouls last season is, well, only kind of interesting when determining a team’s style out of possession.

    For those wondering, Leeds United committed the most fouls with 469 in total (12.3 per 90 minutes) — which makes sense for a side well-known for their dogged running and pressing intensity under Marcelo Bielsa and Jesse Marsch last season.A few fouls here and there were simply par for the course.

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    At the other end of the scale is a Manchester City side who appear to have a much cleaner record when it comes to discipline — not only averaging the joint-fewest fouls (8.5 per 90) but also the fewest yellow cards in the league last season (1.1 per 90).

    This makes sense — City dominate the ball, so they have fewer opportunities to make a foul.

    Things get interesting if we dig a little deeper and account for that possession. Then, City — along with Liverpool and Chelsea — jump to the upper echelons of the table for fouls per 1,000 opponent touches.

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    There is undoubtedly a correlation between teams’ pressing intensity habits and those who commit a higher volume of fouls. Teams who look to get tight to their opponents are more likely to bring them down. This explains why we see this pattern above, as Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Leeds were also the four most intense in their pass per defensive action (PPDA) metrics last season.

    Nevertheless, we are starting to get some signal among the noise here.

    Next up, we can drill down further into the type of fouls each team made — or rather the type of fouls deemed worthy of a booking.

    Specifically, let’s look at the share of fouls a team made that were deemed to be a “tactical foul”.

    Here, Opta flags a tactical foul when “a player is shown a card for committing a foul that interferes with or stops a promising attack, except where the referee awards a penalty kick for an offence that was an attempt to play the ball”.

    You know the type, but let’s run through an example.

    Below, we see Arsenal’s Gabriel in possession in Wolves’ half, before a loose pass forces a turnover in play.

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    Arsenal have committed six players ahead of the ball, as Hwang Hee-chan breaks away with a potential four-v-four counter-attack.

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    However, Bukayo Saka drags down Hwang before he can advance further or make the pass wide in a promising attack. A classic tactical foul.

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    A clumsy challenge from Saka? Or an intelligent ploy to stop the counter-attack and allow his team-mates to get back into shape?

    The example of Arsenal is a pertinent one, as Mikel Arteta’s men had the highest volume of tactical fouls (as a share of their total fouls made) last season, with nine per cent deemed to be “cynical” by the referee.

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    As we go down the list again, we see Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool fall back into mid-table here, where their share of tactical fouls sit at roughly league average.

    That may well be true in principle among last season’s top three, but it’s an interesting view when looking at the locations of all the fouls made last season, broken down by zone.

    Arsenal and Chelsea make more fouls in the opposition half than most sides, but City and Liverpool are the only two teams who make an above-average share of fouls in the central areas of the opponent’s half while being below average in their own half.

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    Why is this interesting? First, the patterns largely pass the eye test given City and Liverpool’s high line and domination of territory, so they are bound to perform more of their actions further up the field. But their higher share of fouls in advanced areas means that the opponent is often brought down before they can counter — or attack in any way — which allows City and Liverpool to regroup.

    They may not be tactical fouls in the pure sense, but they are highly effective and can often go under the radar when the referee thinks about reaching into his pocket.

    Take this example from Liverpool’s home clash with Tottenham Hotspur. Spurs actually play through Liverpool’s press rather well — a pass is played to Rodrigo Bentancur, who flicks it through the gap of the oncoming Andrew Robertson and Jordan Henderson.

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    The ball does run a little loose to Dejan Kulusevski, with Henderson pouncing on the 50-50 and going to ground. Foul one, but no whistle.

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    This leads to another 50-50 between Harry Kane and the onrushing Fabinho, who comes from behind to not allow Kane to turn on the ball. Foul two.

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    As the ball runs free again, Thiago also goes to ground to hack down Bentancur. Foul three, but the referee comes back for the challenge made on Kane. The intention is clear from Liverpool — particularly their midfield — to stop any attack from Spurs before it can begin.

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    The same goes for Manchester City. This time from Rodri, whose 43 fouls committed was the highest in the City squad last season, and the joint-12th highest in the Premier League.

    Here, we see City in possession high up the field with seven players committed across the forward line (and Joao Cancelo in support) as they seek an equaliser against Spurs. Ilkay Gundogan plays a simple pass to Rodri on the edge of the penalty area…

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    … whose touch is not tight enough, and three Spurs players swarm around him to nick the ball away.

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    This sparks a potential counter-attack for Spurs, who now have Kane, Kulusevski and Lucas Moura darting forward towards City’s exposed back line. But before Bentancur can stride forward, Rodri instantly pulls him back to commit the foul.

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    Again, a foul that might look a little clumsy at full speed, but actually stopped a dangerous counter-attack fromcoming to fruition.

    The speed of City and Liverpool’s counter-press has been analysed by The Athletic, but this is supported further when looking at the time elapsed after both sides commit a foul once they’ve lost it high up the field.

    Among all the possessions that start in the opponent’s half, we can look at the share of fouls by each team that are subsequently committed within eight seconds.

    Unsurprisingly, City and Liverpool lead the way as the teams who are most likely to shut down the opposition quickly — they have the highest share of fouls within eight seconds of losing possession in the opponent’s half.

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    This will similarly correlate with a team’s pressing intensity, but are fouls committed shortly after losing possession deemed to be less worthy of further punishment?

    Coming full circle, we can plot each team’s fouls committed per yellow card last season. As you can see below, City and Liverpool actually got away with their fair share of fouls before being cautioned, managing close to seven fouls on average before the referee went into his pocket.

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    Of course, it is dependent on the type of foul committed to warrant a yellow card, but the numbers indicate Liverpool and City accrue those smaller fouls that break up the play at exactly the right time.

    As devastating as Liverpool and City are on the ball, their street smarts also seem to be well-practised whenever the opposition has a sniff of an attack.

    As we enter the new Premier League season, keep an eye out for those moments across all teams, and maybe create your own game with each foul that is committed — clumsy or clever?
     
    #2
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  3. stonkin

    stonkin Well-Known Member

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    Interesting stuff Elland
     
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  4. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Expecting some interesting changes to the stats produced above. The main one being shutting down attacks like Chelsea, Liverpool and City because pressing is one thing but winning the ball and transitioning into attacks….
     
    #4
  5. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    EFL returns for the new season this weekend and it all kick off with a fascinating Championship fixture tonight.

    Huddersfield v Burnley KO 8pm.

    Both squads have had been revamped for differing reasons and both clubs have new managers/coaches as well. Difficult one to call however I'm going to come down on the side of Burnley for no other reason than they still have some PL quality in there.

    Great to have mens (proper) football back <ok>
     
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  6. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    We could easily have been playing in that game
     
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  7. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    <yikes><yikes><yikes>

    Yep and isn't it bloody brilliant that we're not.
     
    #7
  8. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Special,K,signes for AC Milan. Sort it now Victor please
     
    #8
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  9. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Team would have been unrecognizable. We’d have lost our quality players like Rapha and Kp <yikes>
     
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  10. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    And the rest...

    There'd just be Cooper, Klich & Firpo left <yikes>
     
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  11. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    And kiko
     
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  12. 2 pennth

    2 pennth Well-Known Member

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    S
    someone should tell Orta RMT have plenty of strikers




    Sorry couldn’t resist
     
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  13. leeds down south

    leeds down south Well-Known Member

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    3pm for a 6.45 ko <yikes>
    upload_2022-7-29_20-42-55.png
     
    #13
  14. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    Why? What's the rush
     
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  15. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    Money making kick in the teeth for fans who now can't come due to transport links.
     
    #15
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  16. stonkin

    stonkin Well-Known Member

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    I know stats can lie but it looks like a battering from these at HT...

    upload_2022-7-29_20-57-9.png
     
    #16
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  17. Jammy 07

    Jammy 07 Well-Known Member

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    Burnley have been really good but it's the Championship so they'll need to finish the job.
     
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  18. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    When I first heard they were putting the match back 45 mins, I said to Mrs WJ that it was a money grab presented as a favour to us, so we could watch women kick fresh air on the telly (ha, fcuking ha if it goes to ET & pens!). Now I see that we're open for business at 3pm. Cynically presented as necessary for the launch of these new fcuking tix. If they were that confident, there would be no need to open 'early'. But they're not, are they? And they don't exactly have an astonishing record for introducing new IT, have they? Cynical beer-selling opportunity, that's what it is.

    3pm-6:45pm? That's a lot of expensive beer to get down your neck. Downside? Every 30 seconds, some basturd in your row will be going for a pee. <wah>
     
    #18
  19. 2 pennth

    2 pennth Well-Known Member

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    That’s Radz for you never miss an opportunity to make a quick quid golden opportunity to sell some of the pride range marching out together :emoticon-0119-puke:
     
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  20. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't surprise me if they set up bars outside. 2-fold reasoning. 1. They make lots more extra money, & 2. No-one will get through the gates as it'll no doubt fail for some reason, hence beer to 'occupy' us as we await them fixing another royal fcuk-up!
     
    #20
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