Match Day Thread West Ham United versus Norwich City F.C

I don't care who plays as long as they play well ,
McLean and Drmic did as well if not better when replacing Cantwell and Striperman.

Handley has been gash , not sure why the cult following.

 

Have not soiled myself at all this season (maybe you have!) I just get annoyed when we lose to teams we should beat such as Crawley. Was there for the Newcastle game, but missed the Chelsea game (although I saw highlights on MOTD) thought we were unlucky to lose against Chelsea, deserved a draw, Godfrey was unlucky with his header against the bar, Hanley has been responsible for most of the goals we've conceded - too slow. Don't expect to beat sides like Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U, Man City (for which I also will be there (ordered ticket before Crawley game) but I do think we should be able to compete with (and possibly beat) the likes of Brighton, Burnley, Watford, Bournemouth.

No balloons & Cake yesterday (I'm past that stage!) but had a lovely meal out - mixed grill, and I thoroughly enjoyed every mouthful, especially as I was treated to it

Don't expect to beat Man City, but a draw or narrow defeat (say 2-1 or 3-2) will still give me some hope, so long as we raise our game and give a good performance and do not get thumped 8-0 or worse. `Hope Zimbo is fit to play after the international break.

 

The owners of Man city could buy every single player on our books with the change under their couch cushions, of course it's possible to pull off a surprise but not many have , most have been thrashed.

 

Well said, Robbie. I was one of those expressing disappointment, but you're right that we have to remember the long-term development we're going through. With Citeh up next, we've had a tougher start to the season than any other team. Three top 6 clubs and two mid-table teams. The injuries have made that worse, though Cantwell's improvement has alleviated the loss of Hernandez. It's the injuries to three CBs that I found depressing, but at least the international break allows some recovery time.

We were the better team for the first 15 minutes but then the hard press and physicality of their players took over. For Citeh, I'd like to see us be a bit more practical. If either or both Handley and Zimmerman are fit, I'd like to see us play three at the back if Aarons and Lewis are going to bomb up the pitch.

Stiepermann has been disappointing so far this season, so we could change to a 5-2-3 formation aimed at defending in depth and counterattacking when possible. If we don't have 3 CB's available, then Tettey should be added alongside Trybull and Leitner with the same 3 up front and Lewis tucking in with the CBs when we're defending to avoid a demoralising 5 or 6 goal drubbing from Citeh. A 2 or 3 goal loss, especially if we can score a goal or two wouldn't be too bad considering their 5-0 demolition at West Ham or 4-0 over Brighton yesterday. We would then be in a better frame of mind going into 4 more winnable games after that when we can return to our normal style of Farkeball.

 

Conor Southwell describes the role Rice played against us, which is the potential role I'd like to see Tettey take up for us:

"Rice provided the backline with a screen that prevented that defence-splitting pass we’ve witnessed on numerous occasions to release Teemu Pukki and advance City up the pitch. Rice’s positioning between the space of the two central defenders quashed any hope of Emi Buendia, Marco Stiepermann and Pukki managing to combine in advanced areas."

Tettey, flanked by Trybull and Leitner could deny ManCity through balls to Sterling and Aguero, forcing their play wide, which suits them less. That would also allow Leitner to move forward as playmaker when we have the ball and drop back if it's lost.

http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter...e-defensive-shape-but-principles-will-remain/

 

Neither of West Ham's goals should have been scored. For the first, Max was guarding the touchline too close and let Masuaku cut inside of him to receive the ball and take it down before crossing to Haller for a goal. I don't know if that was Max's fault or if someone should have been there to cover that area, but it should not have happened that way. For their second, Todd made an ill-advised attempt to save the ball from going out by kicking it back towards his own end. He should have either kicked it forward or let the ball go out. WH got the ball and put pressure on our left before an unfortunate touch/deflection from Emi straight to Yarmo who made a great strike into the net.

On offense we are not getting away with the things we did last season. The defense "splitting" passes are being cut out and some of those shouldn't even be attempted. Better to find another outlet or holdup the ball and bring it back out if necessary. We're also not getting away with the flick passes when our man with the ball is converged on by two or three defenders in the opposition's territory. This happened several times against Chelsea.

Overall, I think we will fall "on the right side of the fence" in the PL. The players and management just have to stay mentally tough and learn from each opponent. The big concern now is that our would-be DM now has to cover at CB with three of them injured.

 

Has anything been said about Zimbo's injury? Do we know timeframes yet?

 

Not yet. It may be a rolled ankle. We'll have to wait to find out.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/west-ham-2-norwich-0-zimmermann-reaction-1-6246883

 

As I see it there are nine teams in The Premiership who we have realistic chances of taking points from. To date we have played only one of those teams ( Newcastle) and we took the points. Of the other ten teams we may get the occasional result but wins will be rare. Bear in mind that our first five games only throws up a single team from those nine so that eight of our fourteen games after that offer the opportunities to gain points . I would suggest that had we lost our first game and then drawn the next three we would have been in exactly the same position but people would have been more upbeat.

 

Yes, I think the call for a more defensive approach and set up are missing the point that keeping possession is our best form of defence. Facing expertly coached teams with more skilful players, we have to become even more patient in possession now than we learned to be in the Championship. Also, because we have lost Hernandez's pace, longer passes into space behind the opposition back line are proving wasteful.

Despite their importance when we are attacking, our two right side youngsters, Buendia and Aarons, seem to me to be experiencing most difficulty in adjusting to the higher level (in contrast, I thought Lewis was terrific against West Ham). That doesn't exactly help Hanley either. IMO we need to do something to shore up that side of our defence and I'm hopeful that Amadou will do just that when we can actually play him at DM.

 

Very good posts. CS's point about PL opponents exploiting the space between the FB's and CB's has been a problem in every game so far. That's why I'd like to see us sacrifice one attacking player for either another CB or DM in games against top 6 teams or away against top half teams. IMO Stiepermann hasn't been nearly as effective this season because of the quality of DMs and CBs he's been up against.

This could improve our ability to keep possession against top teams, particularly in midfield where we've been losing the ball too much. Buendia, Pukki and Cantwell could then play as a front 3 with Leitner moving forward in support when we have the ball and if Amadou is playing at CB he could move up to DM until the ball is lost.

 

DF had a long conversation with Max Aarons when he came on the field at the final whistle, presumably about how Max might have adjusted better to stop Masuaku, who was a major threat throughout the game. We need the FBs on the touchline when we are in possession, but the moment possession is lost they (or whoever is covering for them if they are in an advanced position) should station themselves several yards infield, which blocks off the space between FB and CB that teams have been exploiting. (I remember reading about how Guardiola completely changed the course of a difficult Bayern Munich game by instructing his RB to station himself three yards further infield. Small details can make such a huge difference.)

 

The disturbing thing to me is the sense that we've been 'found out' already, as Martin Penney suggests:

"As complimentary towards us as Manuel Pellegrini was afterwards, he knew that he had worked us out beforehand, neutralised us during the match and could have walked away with a far better aggregate goal difference than he did. Well done Tim Krul for keeping the score down."

Have we become too predictable? Trybull and Leitner have been severely limited and bypassed for much of the last two games. Choke off the supply to our attacking players and we will struggle to score goals. Chelsea briefly lost their grip after each of their first two goals which allowed us to score our two. After that though, their grip seldom slipped. At West Ham, we never looked like scoring. Stiepermann struggled again, Emi was frustrated and failed to deliver his all action game, Cantwell was hit and miss and as a result Teemu was starved of service up front and West Ham controlled the game. DF needs to use the break to come up with something more before we face ManCity.

 

Of course we have been worked out Rick; after all, that's what analysts are employed to do. None of the teams we've played will have been surprised by us (the only thing that surprised Klopp was that we were "cheeky" enough to make no concessions at all against his team). Steve Bruce tried to replicate last season's home game versus Wednesday (stats in the two games were very similar), but this time we had Emi playing and the Newcastle players seemed to think they only had to turn up to claim the points. Both Lampard and Pellegrini made specific adjustments to thwart us, which worked. But that doesn't mean every team will do the same, or be able to do it with equal success. We are struggling with injuries and adaptation at the moment. If we can get Zimmermann back, Amadou in midfield, and the rest firing on all cylinders, I don't think bottom half teams will find it that easy to contain us.

 

Just seen the tackle on Zimmermann, that was a red!

 

Jacqui Oatley (sp) the BBC reporter at the match said it was at LEAST a yellow

 

I'm an optimist, but the injury situation isn't just temporary. We know we won't have Hernandez and Klose for months so those options have been taken away. Handley and Zimmerman will be weeks at least and maybe more. I was hoping that Amadou could be the key difference this season at DM, a crucial position in the PL, but now it looks like he'll have to be used at CB, which he can do, but I'm not sure it will improve our chances. A heavy loss to ManCity would be our fourth loss in a row and that will be a true test of character for all concerned.

After that we have a run of four games in which we'll have a better chance of points, but where we'll still be the underdog (3 of the 4 are away). There's still a long way to go but we'll have to dig deep in those four games and hopefully develop some new tactics as well. Fingers crossed.

 

Tactically speaking, I'm still expecting only very minor tweeks. Our principles will remain the same.
With the ball I think we will look to outsmart the press. Whether that means greater movement in our midfield with for example Trybull and Leitner splitting and MS coming deeper to offer an additional option or a change in personnel that offer different options. Mostly thinking Amadou, Amadou I guess I'm hoping will have greater physicality and Dynamism relative to TT.
Defensively we need to start plugging gaps, against Citeh, I think an extra defender is warrented but even if one was available I suspect DF might persist with the current set up. For the main many of the chances we concede are from turning over the ball, in particular when we have turned it over cheaply in our half. I think we need to do what we do better and perhaps tweek things positionally. The gap between the FB's and their corresponding CB's is often to large.
Further forward we need to be more judicious with who and how we press, I think one of the big lessons we have received so far has been in these last two games where we have at times been thouroughly neutered. To this end I think we can be more savvy and also defend much better than we sometimes show.
Vs Chelski in the second half, we were hemmed in and struggling in possession resulting in us giving the ball away by launching it long to our non existent target men. But on the flip side, as a result we defended deeper, allowing the oppo less space, as a consequence, I thought we actually looked decent and were not threatened so much at the back, even dare I say it looking comfortable.
I know the best ball to attack with is that, turned over in the oppos half, when pressing with numbers, but we must be smarter with when we do so and when we do be agressive with it as an attacking unit.

Bah!

 

I think we were all hoping Amadou would add some steel to our central defense because we knew we would needed help in defense. It's so disappointing that the injuries at CB are preventing Farkeball from getting a fair chance in the PL.

The only Premier League experience we have in the team are Krul, the injured Klose and Hanley, 33 year-old Tettey, and Byrum and McGovern. That's a big negative but also gives hope that the others will catch up to PL football.

 

Dunno if anyone else has mentioned it on here. I just watched my recording of MOTD 2. The only highlights from this match was the goals, and then the "Penalty" claim.

Why show the "Penalty" (We wouldn't have been given it for that), but not show Haller going through Zimbo and injuring him, or their winger elbowing Trybull?!

It's just every week. If it was the other way round. I'm sure they would have put on the 2 possible reds, and not shown the "penalty".

Baffling.