Off Topic Brexit

Apparently this referendum was the only democratic vote in history. No matter that vote leave was based on populist lies. That it only took place because of Tory infighting and was called by cowardly and arrogant man. That people who voted for leave had no idea what type of terms they were voting for. That 16 and 17 year olds, the generation who will have to pay for brexit, were denied the vote. That 98.5% of Gibraltar and the majority of Scotland and Ulster were ignored thereby jepardising the Union that Tories hold so dear. That brexiters cried 'undemocratic' when people called for a confirmatory referendum.
26.5% of the population voted for a brexit that most didn't understand the consequences of. Can any brexity posters here honestly claim that they voted in the expectation that it would take 54 months and counting to partly conclude, causing massive divisions within households, within England, within the UK and with our greatest friends and neighbours on the continent? Not to mention the financial cost now and hereafter.

 

Remainers caused the delay in leaving.

 

No. The Parliamentary process (normal) did along with the E.R.G.(abnormal).

 

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Whataboutery doesn't cut it. The implications of leaving were, and will continue to be, immense. Economists and politicians of all persuasions knew this - even if 90% of the electorate didn't.

 

Where did you get 90% from?

73.6% Of All Statistics Are Made Up

Debate on facts not myths.

 

That’s completely untrue. Had the actual Govt all voted for Mays deal, it’d have gone through.

Only the Brextremist ERG chose to vote against it, as it wasn’t ‘Brexity’ enough.

Blaming those who said from the off this would be a bucket of ****, now it’s become clear it’s a bucket of ****, is a bit rich like.

 

Sturgeon has an ulterior motive, she's just using any excuse in order to stop Brexit from happening. She knows she's on a sticky wicket and won't get another term anyway.

 

Tell that to the Southern European countries which barely have an economy anymore, tell that to the countries where the Euro has crippled them. Tell that to the countries which have lost their identity and can't even change their own laws without threats of sanctions. Tell that to the countries which are swamped by immigration. Tell that to the countries which are struggling to get passed the red tape which holds them down. Tell that to a lot of EU countries which has very poor employment rates for young people.

Yeah we haven't had a war in 75 years, but there is a huge amount of resentment and anger bubbling under the surface and we can freely travel through Europe (in reality how many people does that actually benefit).

 

Ok

 

It's not about the fish, it's about taking back what belongs to us, it's about freedom and being able to control our waters, something which the UK has thrived on for hundreds of years.

How is it right that EU vessels are allowed to attack our vessels without any sanctions, without any payback, why are we allowed to be bullied in our own territory?

If its only 0. 01 % of the economy, why are the French and Dutch so concerned about it? Why are they panicking and stating that it will ruin their coastal communities if they no longer have access to our waters? Why are they so adamant that they won't give us a deal, if Fish aren't really that important to them, why are our fishing communities allowed to be ruined like they have been for decades, we used to have some of the finest ports in the world, now they are run down hell holes like Grimsby and Boston.

 

Let’s ignore that Mays deal was a crock of s*** eh. May along with most of parliament were against Brexit so they either fought against it or tried to bring in brino.

 

Remind us which votes have included 16 and 17 year olds.

 

Much of your passionate retort relates to places like Greece and southern Italy. I was referring to the UK referendum and a general view of the E.U. Regardless, the 2019 polls for these two countries (which are among the most hostile to the E.U) were Greece 53/43 in favour and Italy 58/38 in favour. Results suggest they very much wish to remain even if they have suffered economically in the past decade.
Of course sanction measures apply in E.U states if violating regulations. Are you suggesting the abolition of beaurocracy and red tape? It's a necessary evil for any country, let alone 27.
Freedom of movement and immigration are two distinct issues. Immigration for economic or refuge-seeking reasons is not a problem created by the E.U. If anything, the UK has played a part in creating the instability in regions like the Middle East.

 

My point was that a referendum of such great importance that was going to affect that age group more than someone aged, say 80, should have been included in that electorate. Just because it's not been done before doesn't make it right - history has shown that over and over.
In my opinion, 16 and 17 year olds should have been included.

 

All votes are important for the future but voters need to be mature enough to make that vote. At 16 and 17 they are not which is exactly why they didn’t get a vote and haven’t before. Using your argument on how much you might be affected then surely you should have a vote as long as you are old enough to make a Mark with a pencil. A line has to be drawn and it’s drawn at the point you are considered to be an adult which is 18 and young enough.

 

Why?

I was never included in the original vote of joining the Common Market, but I was still stuck in it for 40+ years of my future life, without ever having a say if I agreed with it or it's later mutations.

 

Sounds like you're arguing for regular referendums on the E.U. 2026 may be a goer as it'd be a decade since the previous one.

 

Will that take 5 years to implement too lol.